Julian Edgar, 47, has been writing about car modification and automotive
technology for 20 years. He has owned cars with two, three, four, five, six
and eight cylinders; single turbo, twin turbo, supercharged, diesel and
hybrid electric drivelines. He lists his automotive interests as
turbocharging, aerodynamics, suspension design and human powered vehicles.
Clock ticking for Falcon
Hastened by the current world financial crisis and its effects on (particularly) US car makers, there is growing discussion in this country about the demise of the Ford Falcon model.
What to many people was unthinkable even only a year or two ago is now becoming an ‘it’ll probably happen’ scenario that while not palatable, is at least open for discussion.
As was always profoundly obvious to anyone looking at the car industry with unblinkered vision, the FG Falcon was never going to be a success – and it hasn’t proved to be.
Released in February of 2008, Falcon sales in that year show none of the upward trend that would be required (and expected) from the release of a new model.
According to V-Facts, in 2006 the combined Falcon and ute sales were 58,248; in 2007 they were 47,699; and in 2008 they were 44,536. That’s a drop over that short period of nearly 24 per cent – and includes the release of the brand new model!
If anyone can point to any foreseeable factors that would halt or reverse that trend in Falcon sales, I’d love to hear them.
And if that trend isn’t to level or reverse, goodbye Falcon…
I don’t think that even better fuel economy or other achievable changes will now help: I think the decline is terminal. The retention of the old engine for a few more years makes me think that Ford also believes the end is near: why re-engineer the car for new V6 engines when the model life will be so short?
The blame can only be placed at the feet of Ford product planners, who made a host of poor decisions in a climate where far better outcomes were possible. With the FG they had one real chance to turn things around, to build a car that actually matched where the market was going – and they blew it.
Putting a turbo petrol engine in the Territory when a diesel would obviously – so bloody obviously – have sold better? Yep, again they blew it.
What a waste of engineering talent. Of jobs and of skills and of capabilities.
on February 26th, 2009 at 12:22 am
YEAP, somebody once told me Australia can only support 2 manufacturers for cars, that looks to be coming true.
Its a pity but the market has the last say, and the Falcon is unfortunatly a FOULcan.
*Disclosure* I own a 2008 Falcon Ute
Cheers
on February 26th, 2009 at 10:53 am
Anyone noticed the large drop in sales of the Aurion and Camry? Perhaps ANY car built here is ultimately doomed…
on February 26th, 2009 at 11:17 am
Richard, the design costs of the Camry and Aurion are not met just by sales in Aust – and these cars are also exported in large numbers.
on February 26th, 2009 at 11:54 am
Exports would save the Falcon.
RHD turbos to the UK.
LHD police cars to the US
LHD taxis/police cars to the middle east.
Will it happen? Not with the current Ford management. Not with the current cash and investment squeeze.
Sadly, I think you are right about the outcome. However the timing is a bit off, there’s at least another 5 years in the current platforms.
on February 26th, 2009 at 12:17 pm
On a related note: Last night I found there are still Mitsubishi 380s for sale. Brand new ones, never sold before, for $15990.
This was a near $40 000 car.
Mmmmm, I could do with a new Falcon ute for $10k…
on February 26th, 2009 at 1:02 pm
Ford are actually testing a diesel Territory – http://www.caradvice.com.au/23674/ford-territory-diesel-testing-in-full-swing/
on February 26th, 2009 at 5:50 pm
Ah well,I better go get the F6 before they stop making it.
The only regret I will have with that is when I have to deal with the so called Ford Service Department, Everytime I give them a car to look after, I always have to take it back to them to fix things they stuffed up. Sigh……
on February 26th, 2009 at 7:35 pm
Driving a turbo diesel Ford Ranger for work i can’t fathom why that engine isn’t offered as an option for the Falcon?
It has decent power, brilliant torque and driveability, and in a big tank of a brick that is the Ford Ranger is can still get 9L/100km on the open road, and not a lot worse than 10L/100km on a combined cycle.
I would’ve thought it would be an ‘easy’ option, the engine is already developed…
on February 27th, 2009 at 7:12 pm
its a shame as these cars are good(I’m a holden boy so that hurt) maybe they need to follow the trend and export there designs overseas..like holden, honestly Ive driven new camrys(aka aurion) and it was the most un-enjoyable drive ever…dont get me wrong good on fuel, thats about it. try and use the power through those tiny front wheels is scary, even just getting on the highway. fridge on wheels….anyway enough camry bashing, this is a shame as they have been an Australian icon for decades..let wait and see.
on February 28th, 2009 at 6:14 pm
as usual the rarified atmosphere of the decision makers is far away from the real world….
The Commodore has been a better car for many years now, you would think ford would have really soul searched but .. computer says nooo.
sad really.
(not a commodore fanboi, I drive a Subaru Liberty)
on March 1st, 2009 at 12:06 am
With all the mass these cars have put on over the years I’m not surprised they ‘need’ all the power and fuel consumption. I had an EF (auto, later converted to manual), and with either gearbox it was a delight to drive (after I got used to the heavy over-centre clutch). It could hold 5 people in comfort and got great open road economy. The stupid amount of low to mid range torque also allowed for quick getaways. I really don’t see why ford ‘needed’ to add 300kg, 8 inches (guess-o-matic here), and 50kw to the package for a result that in terms of anything other than crash safety is either not much better, or better for no good reason.
on March 1st, 2009 at 2:53 am
From what I’m hearing from General motors on the US news.. I’d say Holden is in more danger than Ford.
That being said, I’d not be surprised of they didn’t both go by the wayside and leave us with only asian and european options.
Its funny, Ford used to make the opposite mistake.. eg removing the v8 from XF and EA and losing a generation of rev heads in the process.. I suspect they are cautious to risk doing that again because generally teenages guys do not want to drive hybrids or 4cyls as a general rule.
The problem is that the folks that want falcons and Xr6′s etc are generally not old or wealthy enough to buy new ones.
As I understand it, the Falcon i6 is the last true australian built car, both motor and vehicle produced in AU… will be a shame to see it go if it does.
on March 1st, 2009 at 3:53 pm
Ford won’t let it die without a fight. The FG was developed under the Sol Trojio of the automotive industry- Tom Gorman. The new CEO seems to gravitate more towards the Geoff Polites side of things.
The downward sales trend is obvious and scary, but consider that volumes arent plunging to anywhere the 380 ever was, so I think it’s too early to predict death.
Maybe if the trend continues for another year or two it will descend to that level, but Fords product planners have got it right before- Look at the BA and original Territory, both products of a company on it’s hands and knees.
As for what to do to the car, the inline 6 still has plenty left in it yet from what I hear.
A lower entry point maybe, the Falcon used to be cheaper than even small imported hatchbacks….
An ECOnetic version could be just the ticket, although this would have to be based on the LPG version to contain costs.
Alternatively, a diesel variant of the inline 6 could be developed to renew interest, the block could take it and there’d be no need to change engine mounts.
The BA reversed the trend, and that was fairly recently. Times have changed, but I’m sure theres a silver bullet for Falcon there somewhere, it always seems to make it. It’s not down for the count just yet!
on March 1st, 2009 at 7:47 pm
Julian, your comments would be valid only if the current financial climate wasn’t up the creek, which is obviously not the case. Sales of new cars all around the world have dropped, so comparing current figures to previous years is a utter waste of time-everyone is tightening their belts.
As for V6 engines, diesel territories, and the future of the falcon – what drivel. I hope there’s a fresh humble pie in the oven.
Engineering changes do not take place overnight, but they do happen. Ford simply doesn’t have the budget to do a big chassis and big engine change in the one launch. Orion was obviously big chassis small engine. Diesel is on its way, LPG is on its way, and the Orion chassis and safety is already world class, so look out.
on March 1st, 2009 at 9:08 pm
Some things to note.
1. The Commodore has suffered just as badly going by the sales figures I saw.. they have hit their lowest figures for about a decade from memory and were saved only by the new sports wagon figures otherwise their figures would have looked much worse.
2. I don’t understand why Julian picks on the falcon so much.. nearly all of his criticism of the falcon also apply to the Commodore and the last figures I looked at showed the falcon had more power AND better economy than the commodore so why is the falcon getting all the bad press from Julian?
3. In light of point 2.. why did ford get it so wrong with the falcon and the perception of what the people want.??? The NUMBER 1 selling car in Australia is a large near 4litre engined car… It’s not a hybrid or an Hyundai diesel, it’s a big 6cyl petrol engined rear wheel drive car that has been the number 1 seller in Australia for about a decade now. This is not an arguable point, more big thirsty commodores in Australia are sold than any other car… . So without a doubt.. that IS what Australians apparently want.. So Ford dropping the falcon might make Julian happy, and without a doubt Holden would jump for joy if the falcon was scratched, but I doubt the australian public in general would be all that happy. At least 45,000 of them wouldn’t be in any case.
4. Toyota also listed some serious drops in sales numbers in the last quarter.. So this problem is not limited to holden or ford. I’m guessing that the only new cars selling in big numbers right now are the really cheap ones. This isn’t because of what people want, it’s because of what people can afford.
on March 2nd, 2009 at 9:03 am
Franki, the decline in the Australian-made big car is a clear trend. Despite their past sales success the public is buying other cars in increasing numbers.
The reason people are moving away from the Falcon/Commodore is that they now have increased choice in the marketplace, and they’re choosing things that better suit their needs. This effect is amplified by the Commodore/Falcon increasingly moving away from being what most people need.
Consider for a moment the following:
- Australia’s trade barriers being lowered, through lower tariffs, and free trade agreements, making imported cars relatively cheaper. The big Aussie six isn’t as good value as it once was.
- Greater buying power of the public, through increased access to things like mortgage equity and salary sacrifice, meaning people can aspire to owning more expensive cars and thereby increasing the choice of cars available to them.
- The increasing relaxing of “Australian-made” covenants from salary sacrifice and employer-provided cars giving purchasers more choice in cars.
So, this all means that consumers have a lot more choice, and that increasingly, inevitably a Falcon or Commodore is not going to be the right or obvious choice for most people. Now what have Holden/Ford done about this threat to their sales?
- Have they built cars that have more usable interior space? Nope, split/fold/tumble seating isn’t available. You can’t buy a hatch or van version. Until recently, if you bought a wagon it was a massive beast.
- Have they built cars that use less fuel and therefore cost less to run? Nope. Their fuel economy has barely changed.
- Have they built cars that fit into today’s smaller roads/parking spaces/driveways? Nope. They’ve all grown in size.
Is it any wonder then that buyers are increasingly buying other cars that provide a better solution for their needs and are affordable?
There will always be a market for something like the Commodore and Falcon: taxis, police, revheads, medium-large families, regular long-distance drivers. The question is, is that market big enough to keep making them profitably? As the sales continue to decline the answer is looking increasingly like “No”. And Holden/Ford aren’t doing themselves any favours by not building cars that appeal to a wider range of people. So, people who need to tow big things are buying 4WDs, families are buying something smaller or easier to use, companies are buying something cheaper (or, increasingly, greener).
That said, I own a Commodore, because it suits my needs. I have three small children: it fits three car seats in it, with enough room for me to clamber about and do up all the belts, and a boot big enough for the pram and other guff we end up carrying about. At $16K for a two year old fleet car ex-auction (probably less these days…) it was a bargain. I also have a small diesel hatch to run around in when I don’t have to cart the whle family, so the Commodore does less than 10000kms a year, meaning running costs aren’t that big a deal either. As my kids grow out of the car seats I’ll reconsider what sort of car I need and what I can afford. I hope that the option of a cheap secondhand Commodore or Falcon is still there, but maybe it won’t be.
on March 2nd, 2009 at 9:20 am
To reinforce one of Jason’s points: The “big” Aussie cars are in many ways not big at all.
I was recently putting a fishtank in a customer’s car. Husband and wife and driven separately, he in a commodore, she in a honda civic. Guess which car would take the fishtank… it wasn’t the so-called “big” car.
On the same point, I’ve recently been moving a lot of boxes. I have the choice of a commodore or a Hyundai Getz. Yes, the little Hyundai economy car, while not carry any MORE than the enormous holden, also doesn’t carry any LESS, and loading through the rear hatch it is easier and faster to fill, and I don’t have to worry about marking the leather seats like I do when laying boxes on the seats.
Of course if I was using falcodore WAGONS then the story would be different. And the getz is a piece of crap when it comes to acceleration, handling, NVH, high speed etc, etc. Of course it is also only $13990.
on March 2nd, 2009 at 10:19 am
Ford do make cars to that market.. they are called Mondeo’s, Festiva, Focus etc.
As far as hybrids go, the Ford Fusion looks like a far better car than the honda or toyota’s in so far as technology and driver friendlyness goes. I’m hoping Ford Au import that because the reviews I read said it’s top flight in most respects.
As it stands right now today.. the biggest selling car in AU is a big 6 cyl.. they might be in decline, but they are still number 1 and I’m fairly certain the falcon is in the top 10 as well. If they change the Falcon to a 4cyl diesel, it woun’t be a falcon…. It is one model of an entire range and it’s targetted to one area. Yes, they should make better use of interior space, but the other arguements don’t apply because they are not in the same class as the fusion.
Time will tell I guess.
on March 2nd, 2009 at 10:46 am
If Ford brought out a 2 seater hatch version, like the BMW M coupe I would definately buy that. It could have a temporary rear seat that folds down when you need boot space. To make it cheaper, it could even be based on the ute/ wagon chasis. Smaller, lighter more economical and innovative. That would arrest the fall.
on March 2nd, 2009 at 11:36 am
“If they change the Falcon to a 4cyl diesel, it woun’t be a falcon….”
I disagree. I think there are really only two things that make a falcon. Long distance touring ability for 4 adults (throw in a kid in there too if you want) and their stuff, and a disproportionately large amount of low rpm torque. Both of which are possible with a slightly smaller car with a turbo-diesel.
on March 2nd, 2009 at 12:02 pm
> Ford do make cars to that market.. they are called Mondeo’s, Festiva, Focus etc.
The point isn’t so much “Why isn’t Ford/Holden selling cars people want to buy?” rather “Why isn’t Ford/Holden designing and building cars people want to buy?” Importing and selling alone is not a local car industry.
Holden is slightly better off in this regard, due to its export program. Whether that is enough to keep the Commodore alive in it’s current guise, time will tell. As it stands though, things do look more dire for the Falcon, hence this article.
on March 2nd, 2009 at 3:06 pm
The Commodore is not doing well in the USA so it’s more or less just as endangered as the Falcon in the medium term. Both are safe at least in the short term, but to call the Falcon’s decline terminal is premature.
In order for this(death) to eventuate, we would have to assume the Global Financial Crisis will continue beyond the point where Falcon sales volumes drop to triple figures, and that Ford will allow the product in it’s current form to stagnate. I do agree a major re-think is required but I doubt it will die during FG’s model cycle.
on March 2nd, 2009 at 7:45 pm
“..but I doubt it will die during FG’s model cycle.”
Who said it would? I would guess it will undergo at least one facelift – all that must be already done now anyway.
on March 2nd, 2009 at 10:55 pm
Then we can all sit back and watch the 4cyl turbo diesel supercars…. oh wait.. who’d watch that? lots of job losses there.
Isn’t there room for more than one class of passenger vehicle? must they all be small td or hybrids.. is there no room for anything else? Pretty sad if that is true.
If there is no room for the big falcon and commodore then there is no need for Holden or Ford local manufacturing because better models of hybrids and diesels than Australia can manage are already available elsewhere from GM and Ford for less money then we can manage so they (ford) might as well just import the Fusion and swap from an australian manufacturer to just another importer. Ditto with Holden and GM.
on March 3rd, 2009 at 9:12 am
Franki,
I think you’ll find that Le Mans features turbo diesel supercars these days, and people watch it.
Of course your main point stands: Australian industry can’t just copy what Europe or Japan (or China or India) does, because we can’t match their costs and investment.
On the other hand, Australian cars traditionally made a big feature of the fact that they were using petrol engines that ACTED like diesel engines. Bulk torque at low revs is the traditional style, so changing to a diesel should make no difference, except for the fuel consumption. Thinking this way, Australia should have been the FIRST country to change over, rather than Europe which traditionally liked revvy little engines with no real torque.
A 1500kg Falcon with a 3 litre turbo diesel pumping 500 Nm and 170 kW would have similar performance to today, even more effortless off idle torque, and with Jazz level space efficiency should have the same interior room with smaller outside dimensions. Make it RWD and you’d still not find any foreign competition outside of the big expensive Germans.
on March 3rd, 2009 at 9:16 am
doctorpat – I agree completely.
But the point is that it’s now too late. IMHO, the FG was their last chance to start down the right road – and they blew it.
on March 3rd, 2009 at 9:41 am
I don’t know, the latest oil crisis seems to have blown over. And Europe and Japan probably will pull their heads in and not make major advances over the next few years (in the field of bigger, faster, mass production passenger cars). I’m thinking it will be smaller, lighter and frugal for a while.
So Aussie big cars may get one last chance before petrol shoots up again, combined with a new 2.5 litre TDi 4wd Camry or something.
on March 3rd, 2009 at 10:33 am
I just don’t think Ford in Australia will have the money. That’s why I think the FG was their last chance – instead of blowing the dough on a pointless engine upgrade of the existing design, and an equally pointless new front suspension, they could have spent the money so much more wisely.
on March 3rd, 2009 at 7:50 pm
You say Julian, that Ford must believe that the Falcon is at a near end because they have not put a V6 in the Falcon yet. You also call the 6 cyl engine old.
It got a huge redesign in 2002 with the BA…
Why fix something that ain’t broke?
It has always been in my view that smooth straight 6 engines are one of the best designs, and I wish there were more out there rather then the relatively low torque high revving V6′s out in the market at the moment.
When Holden moved from the Nissan straight 6 to the Buick designed V6 did you jump for joy? I certainly did not.
What I believe Ford should do is, now seeing as they have finally started to make the 6 a world class engine is reduce capacity. Say a 3.2 like they used to. Except now they have the efficiency to make a much more powerful smaller 6 that would satisfy many buying customers.
on March 3rd, 2009 at 8:32 pm
Mainyard, you may not know but Ford were all set to swap to imported US-built V6s – and then they suddenly changed their minds at the last minute. That was what I was referring to.
on March 3rd, 2009 at 10:59 pm
My understanding was that the AU government handed them a bunch of money to make the i6 an alloy block world class engine rather than lose the jobs. Prior to that it was going to be v6 all the way.
The reviews of the current I6 have considered it’s power delivery and torque world class and now they want it to have emissions to match.
I agree with Mainyard.. make it a 3.0 litre with alloy block, make it boosted by SC or turbo as standard and give it cyl shutdown like the new Holdens getting and you’ll have a real world class frugal i6, it doesn’t have to be diesel or hybrid.. Add direct injection and you have a 1st class hi tech i6 that could sell anywhere in the world.
I love the torque of the i6, I’m more than halfway though bolting an M90 eaton onto mine for about 10psi and boost from idle.. just what the doctor ordered.
on March 4th, 2009 at 9:13 am
With all this talk about diesel being the way to go with the Falcon… what about LPG? Also, LPG Territory, LPG Terri-Turbo, LPG XR6 Turbo.
The fuel economy in an LPG-fuelled vehicle may somewhat suffer compared to diesel (~25% with a mixer ring, ~10% with injection), but that frees up more diesel resources for heavy industry (which relies on diesel).
Our LPG supplies are cheap and plentiful. And the 4.0 is already proven to be an excellent performer on LPG, next to no R&D or engineering costs would be needed to implement/promote the LPG variants beyond their current “workhorse” guises such as E-Gas utes, which still use low-tech mixer/converter setups.
I myself have a Ford wagon on gas, I do like being able to travel 400+kms on 50L of gas (it’s an older wagon with a mixer/converter system hence the average economy). Do the sums and you’ll find that it’s cheaper to drive than a petrol 4 cylinder, and marginally more expensive than a small TD hatch or a hybrid. And the $2500 purchase price sure beats the $25-40k price for said TD hatches/hybrids…
Gas emissions contain less CO2 per unit volume than petrol or diesel too, and unlike diesel emissions have no particulate matter, so it’s not as bad for the environment.
on March 4th, 2009 at 3:51 pm
LPG would be ideal if only Ford could find someone capable of installing LPG tanks without filling half the boot. They’ve only been making LPG taxis since the 1980s, so I’m sure they’ll solve the problem within another couple of decades from now.
on March 4th, 2009 at 4:00 pm
Less rudely (but seriously, they’ve known LPG tanks were a big factor for several model cycles now, why on earth can’t they leave room to install the tanks in place of the petrol tanks or something) LPG only works because it isn’t that popular.
Once LPG is mainstream, the government will tax it until it doesn’t offer a real savings over petrol. Then you’ll have to change to CNG or something.
on March 4th, 2009 at 5:28 pm
I hope you are wrong but you make a good point wrt management incompetence.
Australia has a unique product in large but cheap to buy RWD cars ie Falcon and Commodore and I would fight to keep said products available.
Rudd would be better spending taxpayer’s $$$ to buy the companies from their idiot US owners rather than gifting money to deadbeats to blow in the pub or Crazy Clarks stores buying imported rubbish.
Then he could persue a “Buy Australian” policy for Government and fleet users to keep production going AND support allied industries – Ion, pilkington et al.
To hell with the Mitsu 380 exercise in futility and to hell with hammering Camrys together here – they are not Australian initiatives.
Frankly I believe that there will only be tears if Ford and GMH base their business plans on assembling small FWD cars designed elsewhere.
The rest of the world build those and probably beter too.
By using some Government initiaves like taxing bloody SUVs at a higher import rate plus a carbon tax (and probably with a road trauma tax as well if I had my way) production numbers could be boosted. I think many ex Falcadore drivers went SUV so getting them back would help keep sales up.
Also I passionately believe that most people don’t actually want a small car but believe or are mislead into believing they HAVE to buy a small car. That may be passing as I see eg Prius sales haved now in USA as fuel prices fall.
Falcon and Commodore ARE unique and bloody good things – they ARE worth preserving, not only for for the themselves but also for all the allied industries.
If Ford and GMH stop making what they are good at, I would choose to buy my next car from a real importer and not risk a dodgey, locally assembled small car.
Bob Jay
on March 5th, 2009 at 7:41 pm
I have a 2000 AUII one tonner with a 4L Egas motor & I love being able to go as far on a tank (or in the one tonners case 2 half size tanks) of LPG as others do on petrol. The power loss is less than dual fuel vehicles as engine tuning can be more precise so going up Willunga Hill (you know the one Julian) is no problem at all even half or more loaded. To me dedicated LPG should deserve greater development by all as long as the government does not impliment the planned LPG tax increase in I think 2011.
on March 6th, 2009 at 11:54 pm
They wil. Look what happened to diesel. The government encouraged the use of a low cost, low(ish) useage fuel and then when everyone used it they realised that they could tax it more.
Here in NZ unleaded is 1.60 and lpg is 1.30. It’s not worth getting a car converted at those prices. Unless the idea of a normally intrusive (into boot space) tank turns you on of course.
on March 8th, 2009 at 6:58 am
Shouldnt the definition of ‘large car’ be based on size and weight that is constant over the years. Even todays Mondeo is a large car ( doesnt it have a longer wheelbase that the Falcon- not that Ford will tell you that) by the standards of 10 years ago. Look at todays Mini , its a mid size car compared to its predecessor.
on March 8th, 2009 at 8:53 am
yup… Take a look at a new camry next chance you get.. they are huge. Much bigger than the E or A series falcons and right up there with FG/VE
on March 10th, 2009 at 3:11 pm
doctorpat, the current LPG Falcons remove the petrol tank and replace it with an LPG tank. There is a small loss of of space in the boot plus a space saver tyre.
on March 10th, 2009 at 4:58 pm
About time. Haven’t seen a taxi like this yet. (Though admitedly I can’t say I’ve put anything in the boot of a taxi for several months).
on March 13th, 2009 at 12:58 am
I’ve been wondering how the sales of insights and Toyota Prius’s compare to the sales of Falcons, Commodores or Camry/Aurions… I’ve not found any definitive sales figures, but what I’ve read seems to indicate that every sale of every different hybrid make/model together would not equal the sales of just the Falcon or the commodore or the camry etc etc.
It may be the way things are headed, but we’re a fair way off from it yet.
on March 13th, 2009 at 6:44 am
You could far better say: “With well over a million of the Prius sold, Falcon sales don’t even come close.”
It doesn’t matter what the geographical market area is, the amortising idea is much the same…
on March 13th, 2009 at 9:14 pm
So you’re saying its fair to compare a locally sold cars figures with an internationally sold car?
Why not then fair it up some and compare all hybrid sales worldwide with all mid to large size 6cyl petrol sedans.. would that not give a more accurate figure of international sales and customer preference overall?
Sorry Julian, but this quote:
“You could far better say: “With well over a million of the Prius sold, Falcon sales don’t even come close.”
Is below you, sell the falcon internationally with the same level of advertising as the Prius gets now for 5 years.. and then compare them..
This entire site is a shrine to the type of cars you like now so I know what you “want” to be the preference.. but once not that long ago you had a falcon yourself and even today in AU, many more people own modern falcons than hybrids.
Apart from which, This article is about an Australian only car’s success or failure.. what has it to do with international sales?
Also, do you mean 1 million prius’s sold this past year? or ever? because I’m pretty sure Ford would have sold more than a million falcons since the XK…
lets be objective if we’re going to make comparisons.
on March 14th, 2009 at 7:46 am
“sell the falcon internationally with the same level of advertising as the Prius gets now for 5 years.. and then compare them.. ”
Well, quite possibly. But so what? Unfortunately, the Falcon isn’t sold internationally – that’s the point, isn’t it?
You confuse personal likes and dislikes with arguments about viability of models within the Australian car industry.
Just as I said about the Mitsubishi 380 before its production ceased, I cannot see how the Falcon can be long-term viable as a car to make in Australia.
Its sales are declining in Australia; it’s not exported in large numbers; its development costs are borne completely by the local branch of Ford.
It’s pretty bleedingly obvious that unless any of those factors change big-time, the car will cease being made.
on March 14th, 2009 at 2:01 pm
I understand your point, but as it stands right now.. If the new Camry hybrid that our tax dollars partly financed, sells as many models in Australia as the Prius, it will fail almost immediately.
Additionally, for a model that is sort just about in every country Toyota can sell them to only have sold a million in all these years is not really that good a figure in that context. In fact if the Corolla sold with the same figures as the Prius worldwide.. Toyota would drop it like a hot rock.. It’s only the PR from being “seen to be green” that keeps Toyota forking out cash advancing the prius.. because I’ll bet money it’s not any sort of cash cow for them.
I work for a university IT department and there are about a dozen prius’s that show up in the parking lot… but thus far I’ve not seen a single one driven by a man.. all of them are driven by early middle age women so I don’t think their image is ready for them to pull mainstream sales numbers in Australia yet.
on March 14th, 2009 at 2:13 pm
Um, exactly what do Prius sales have to do with the viability of the Falcon as an Australian-made car?
You keep bringing up the Prius: it is completley irrelevant. I tried to make that point in my previous post but you seem (again) to have missed it.
on March 14th, 2009 at 2:20 pm
My Point was.. if the Falcon isn’t viable anymore, and the Commodore is decreasing in sales also.. what exactly IS a valid model in australia? It’s not a prius, not an i30.. maybe a corolla? As I understand it, there are not many models that have made an increase in sales of late so I guess we don’t have any valid viable models anymore.
on March 14th, 2009 at 2:29 pm
I mean, Franki, if you really want to talk Falcon and Prius in the same breath…
There would not be one car engineer working in any car company in the entire world who is not aware of the Toyota Prius, and its significance in terms of changing vehicle engineering direction. In fact, I am not aware of any car company in the world that is not developing or already marketing hybrid technology – from the most obscure Chinese manufacturer to the likes of Porsche and Ferrari.
The Falcon? I doubt if even 5 per cent of the engineers of the world’s car manufacturers have even heard of the Ford Falcon, let alone the Falcon changing any technology being pursued by anyone.
One is the most significant car released in the last 50 years – the other is a car that in world terms, has no significance at all.
on March 14th, 2009 at 2:31 pm
It’s not rocket science: the economically viable models for Australian manufacture are ones with major export opportunities, and development costs largely absorbed elsewhere.
on March 14th, 2009 at 2:49 pm
To be honest, I don’t think there are any longterm viable australian made cars.. as long as 3rd world countries continue to be 3rd world countries it will always be cheaper to have them imported from somewhere without our standard of living or salary expectations.
Case in point is just how many Holdens were actually made by daewoo since 2000?
I guess the writing is on the wall in that respect.. I guess what arced me up was that this article “should” have been about the australian car manufacturing days are numbered, not just the Falon, but every australian made car simply because if you make it in taiwon/china/india/korea, you can sell it cheaper here with higher profit and lower price. So logically it does’t make sense to make them here.. Even the government knows that which is why all the handouts and import tarrifs are in place.
on March 14th, 2009 at 5:31 pm
“this article ‘should’ have been about the australian car manufacturing days are numbered”
Well, I don’t think they are.
on March 14th, 2009 at 10:23 pm
Well then I guess I’m wondering why you singled out the Falcon then.. The company backing them is in much better condition than the one backing Holden.. (ie Ford didn’t want the handouts, GM absolutely had to have them)
All of the criticisms that you level at the Falcon apply to the Commodore as well.. I don’t know about now, but historically the falcon had more profit in it over the commodore on a per car basis. Both the Falcon and Commodore had similar sales declines in the past year (as did just about everything else).
So why did you pick the Falcon? Sure, the commodore gets exported to the US.. but how is that going to project in the future when the country they are exporting to, is the one that just about sent GM to the bankruptcy court in the first place?
on March 15th, 2009 at 6:32 am
Um, because Holden sells 40 per cent more Commodores in Aust than Ford sells Falcons? Because Holden exports their cars to the Middle East? Because the development costs for Toyota Australia of the Aurion and Camry were tiny when compared with the Falcon and Commodore – and Toyota also sells a huge number of Australian-built cars overseas?
Again, it’s very obvious that, of all the Australian made cars, Ford with the Falcon is in the most precarious state.
on March 15th, 2009 at 12:32 pm
According to this:
http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mellor.nsf/story2/F75E5B1CCBADA9DCCA2574B100215D11
Ford look like choosing one platform for which to build each car class from worldwide to reduce cost and consolidate assets.. They don’t know if the Falcon will be the platform for the bigger family class or something else.. but when it happens the production costs for Ford AU would drop massively. (unless the falcon platform is chosen in which case I’d imagine they’d be subsidised.)
There might be hope yet. Reading the article, Ford have apparently said some of the same things you have.
on March 26th, 2009 at 9:30 pm
I think the Falcon name will remain, but the car won’t be the current Falcon. The upcoming Ford Taurus looks alright, I could imagine that with different styling would be the next Falcon.
Some might complain about FWD, but hey, they offer AWD versions in the States.
That said, why buy a Falcon when a Mondeo is almost the same size, cheaper, better looking, and more economical to boot? For all of those complaining about the lack of a diesel Falcon? The Mondeo already comes in a diesel.
If you want to tow, a 2WD petrol family car is a compromise anyway, a diesel 4WD would be much better suited.
on March 26th, 2009 at 10:23 pm
I own a 2.4lt turbo diesel Hilux Surf 4×4 and it costs me far more to run than my falcon ever did… The falcon might not be the perfect car for towing.. but it does alright with my 18 foot FG half cabin.
on March 27th, 2009 at 1:25 am
Quote for relevance: “Um, because Holden sells 40 per cent more Commodores in Aust than Ford sells Falcons?” – Julian Edgar
Hmm. Julian, just out of interest, rather than a single marque, how many Australian built cars are sold by Ford vs Holden? I think you’ll find that sales volumes between the two are actually quite close. I’ll dig up some figures… Okay, looking at the Vfacts for Feb 09. Falcon + Falcon Ute + Territory = 4208 Commodore +Commodore Ute + Statesman = 4085
Okay, so apparently Ford won in Feb. Hmm.
Now I agree that the FG falcon is underwhelming, Your criticism seems mirrored by the reviewers for Wheels COTY, however it seems harsh to suggest that Ford Aus’s future looks worse than Holden’s given the current issues with GM in the USA.
On a semi related note, do you think Burela is likely to be a better thing for Ford Aus than Osborne, or Gorman before him?
on March 27th, 2009 at 7:26 am
On a semi related note, do you think Burela is likely to be a better thing for Ford Aus than Osborne, or Gorman before him?
I wouldn’t have the faintest idea.
When the discussion is specifically about the Falcon , I don’t think you can add in other models as if they were the same car. On that basis the Fairlane would still be being manufactured!
on March 27th, 2009 at 9:09 am
I don’t think you can completely separate the other models from the falcon either.
When it comes to the decision to invest in designing the next Falcon (the original basis of this argument) Ford is going to look at how many vehicles it is going to amortize the costs over. And for a lot of the design/testing/tooling work, all the vehicles Tristan mentioned use the same, or the same family, of components.
So the investment decision will be based on all those numbers.
This was, after all, Fords thinking in developing the Territory in the first place.
on March 27th, 2009 at 9:57 am
I think Tristan an docpat have a point..
The territory and falcon ute share a pretty a pretty decent part of their drive trains with the falcon (and lots of other bits too).. so the cost of engine development (for example) is spread around a heap more than just on the falcon and is therefore much easier to justify.
on May 10th, 2009 at 3:16 am
This has been an interesting read so far. So lets add to it. Hate to say it Julian but Falcon sales rose 8% since the new FG. but still being owned by the US isn’t helping However Commodore is looking a lot more shaky. There flagship V8 has stopped being exported to the US because of pontiac being shut down. Ford has asked for bail out money once yet GMC went back again. Chrysler has filed bankruptcy in a bid to create a joint merger with fiat. With such big financial movement in the US i would say the Aussie 2 are doing will in spite of the down turn. As for this Toyota there sales have plummeted further then both GMC and ford. Their Hybrid sales have slashed by 45% and still declining.
Let do a bit of thinking.
Ford and Holden are have austalian built cars. Toyota is japanese imported.
Labour cost alone Toyota is a clear winner. The factories are cheeper, and the reasources are ever so cheap because of it free trade agreements with china. So let me piece together this puzzle for you. China has free trade agreement with us (heavily in reasources) japan sources our resourse from china (its close and has free trade agreement)and sources labour because of how cheap it is. Japan sends parts back to aus for assembly (this is the most expensive part). and that is why they sell for a lower price. what you are doing with this article is damming all austalian built and owned vehicles. As for the Hybrids. They are not all there cracked up to be. Low battery life. Software problems and they do not repay themselves.
So on this not. I do find your statements a little misguiding, more research is needed next time you wish to make allegations about the life span of cars. Ohh and If anyone argues about being green with this hybrid and Plug and charge cars. Where is the electricity coming from, Coal. And how muh are you willing to pay on your next electricity bill. Think about it 7hr charge for 300km hmm. Makes you wonder.
on May 10th, 2009 at 12:26 pm
I think that might be a typo.. I don’t think Ford asked for any money with GM and Chrysler from the US government. They just reserved the right to should they need it.
With Pontiac gone.. 30 percent less commodores will get sold from the article I read.. I think that alone just made the Camry Australia’s most popular car by itself. Ford really is consolidating though… and if the FG drivetrain (or the alloy version that follows it) is choosen as fords worldwide rear wheel drive platform… Ford au will do nicely from it.
all speculation though.. they could all go down the tubes and leave us with Kia/Hyundai/proton.. with their labour costs they are probably the ones in the least pain from the crisis.