Julian Edgar, 50, has been writing about car modification and automotive technology for nearly 25 years. He has owned cars with two, three, four, five, six and eight cylinders; single turbo, twin turbo, supercharged, diesel and hybrid electric drivelines. He lists his transport interests as turbocharging, aerodynamics, suspension design and human-powered vehicles.
Why live in a hole like Sydney? Honestly…
The other day I spent a week in Sydney. I’ve never lived in Australia’s largest city, and I can’t think of any possible situation that would compel me to do so.
Given that all of Australia’s major car magazines and most web media are located there, in my job, that’s a pretty big statement.
But I just can’t stand the place.
I have always thought the Opera House and Harbour Bridge are quite fantastic, as of course is the harbour itself and the ferries that ply it.
But having spent individual weeks on and off for the better part of 15 years working there, photographing modified cars and visiting car workshops, I think that most of the working class suburbs are just dives.
I don’t like the pollution (it gives me hay fever symptoms each morning until the breezes partly clear the air); I don’t like the fundamental arrogance of the residents (if someone sends us an email and it’s from Australia but they don’t say where they live, you can be certain it’s from Sydney – after all, doesn’t everyone live here?); I don’t like the traffic (Brisbane is bad but it doesn’t frequently stop for hours at a time); and on my most recent Sydney trip (a week ago as I write this), I didn’t like the even-more-than-usual run-down appearance in the suburbs – clearly, economic times in NSW are as bad as commentators suggest.
In fact, I wonder why large cities like Sydney continue to maintain their size, without the exodus of residents I would have by now expected.
My (ancient) economic geography training suggest that cities function at attracting businesses (and thus employment) because of ideas like scale economies (it’s cheaper per item to make large numbers of something at one location); agglomeration economies (‘like’ businesses geographically locate close together so one can feed the other with a minimum of transport costs); and information agglomeration (businesses locate close to one another as both formal and informal information exchanges work best with face-to-face contact). And of course, there’s also a large proximate market.
But surely all that is largely predicated around secondary industry and olde-world notions?
How much of Sydney’s employment is in secondary (manufacturing) industry? Less than 15 per cent? Do people really believe that video conferencing, near-instant email and messaging, SMS and intra-nets are far less productive than a boozy weekly business lunch? When information dispersal is getting close to being zero in cost, what are the market disadvantages of having a far-flung audience of consumers?
Why isn’t the almost-flat playing field of information technology allowing people to, in massive numbers, get the hell out of the place?
Of course, in any analysis of migration, there are ‘push’ factors and ‘pull’ factors.
And perhaps I over-emphasize the ‘push’ factors?
My wife and I drove to an appointment early Sunday morning in Sydney. The air was thick with pollution, probably an atmospheric inversion clamping a lid over the city and preventing free air mixing.
My eyes were itchy, my nose slightly runny – and Georgina had eyes so red it looked like she hadn’t slept for a week.
But, blow me down, there were heaps of people out jogging.
With no exaggeration at all, I can say that if I was aerobically exercising (eg riding my recumbent pedal trike) in those atmospheric conditions, in quite a short space of time I’d have been physically sick.
But these people were apparently fine.
I seriously wondered if, like those who live in very high altitudes like the Andes, whether Sydney-siders haven’t developed greater lung capacities, or an ability to ward off the affects of oxides of nitrogen and carbon monoxide poisoning.
Seriously.
So, for these people, perhaps the ‘push’ factors are minimal?
I dunno.
I looked at the house prices (and I was curious enough to check the prices of real estate local to where we were staying: we’d walked around the area and when I saw what dollars the houses were commanding, I was just incredulous) and wondered why anyone living in Australia, no matter what their job or occupation, would choose to sacrifice that much disposal income on what is in relative terms, a dive. Well, I’ve said the word ‘dive’ already, so perhaps I shouldn’t say it again.
But you get what I mean….
We went up to Katoomba and Lithgow and Bathurst – all places that at first acquaintance, I’d be happy to live. And, in the context of tele-commuting for most of the week, they’re close enough to Sydney to get there once a week for those (apparently required) face-to-face meetings.
Wollongong looked to my eyes in economic decline (cf previous mentions to secondary industry – surely steel works are the archetypical exemplar of 19th century industrialisation); but I am sure than on its outskirts are similarly nice places to live.
Newcastle, ditto.
Look, I am not setting myself up as some authority on where people should reside. But I am amazed that economic and lifestyle pressures, in the context of an information revolution, haven’t made people more mobile in their place of residence.
If you work as a machinist at a lathe in a small, family-owned specialist engineering shop, I agree that you can’t do that by email. (And, I might say, I have the greatest respect for such artisans.) But the reality is that the majority of people currently in employment are not geographically tied to the one location by such primary (farming and agriculture) or secondary (manufacturing) industry vocations.
So why stay in an area where you not only cannot smell the metaphorical roses, but, through the pollution haze, can’t even see the bloody horizon?
on January 15th, 2009 at 7:20 am
We knew you were coming Julian and wanted to make you feel *welcome*. Looks like it worked – so, when are you coming back so we can throw out the welcome mat for you LOL….
Julian, you live in a cul-de-sac near the top of a beautiful mountain in the Gold Coast hinterland, almost an ideallic rural retreat if you like. Of course you are going to hate everywhere that it is not.
I have been lucky enough to have lived in many of the suburban areas of Sydney, Canberra and Brisbane, as well as many country areas of NSW (Orange, Cowra and Forbes) and whilst Sydney has some areas that make you wonder why, – on the whole, (not HOLE :p) it’s a great place to live.
Strangely, you don’t mention the exact area that you stayed in. I wonder if I was a visitor to some of the less desirable areas of Brisbane or Melbourne and stayed for a week if I would come away with similar feelings..
As for the polution, yeah, sometimes it’s pretty bad, especially around the cumberland basin area which is where it sounds like you were staying.
on January 15th, 2009 at 8:13 am
I’ve stayed in Sydney for weeks at a time and really enjoyed my time there.
The one thing I don’t like about Sydney is the crime amoungst youth. And I’m not a old foggie whinging about kids. I’m 23, and when I went there last… well there was no way I was getting on those trains alone with my bike.
on January 15th, 2009 at 8:20 am
I agree, the place is an expensive hole. I lived there for 7yrs in the 80’s/90’s before moving to Adelaide.
People told me that Adelaide was a hole and that nothing happens and there’s no work there.
Since moving to Adelaide, I’ve never been out of work and purchased my first house on a large block that is a $10 cab fare (or $4 on the tram) to the CBD for just over $300k.
The best party and nightlife fun I ever had (when single) was in Adelaide and the food & wine culture is world renown. The Barossa Valley is 1hr away (through the CBD!), along with McClaren Vale, Claire Valley and others.
It’s cheap to live here and everything is close at hand.
But then the other day I had to sit at a set of lights for 2 WHOLE CYCLES!!! I was disgusted…
But I still like living in the ‘hole’ that is Adelaide 🙂
on January 15th, 2009 at 12:54 pm
I’m with you, Julian. Two years ago I moved way from the Sydney Suburbs, my massive mortgage and my 2 hour bus commute and moved up here to the Hunter Valley.
Now I get to work by bicycle in 20 minutes, my mortgage is significantly less and my whole family is healthier, wealthier and happier.
Only trouble is, too many other people are discovering the same thing.
on January 15th, 2009 at 2:58 pm
Things are not as simple as they seem, Julian. The fact is, we still have to live somewhere within commuting distance of work. Tele-commuting notwithstanding, most work places still require you to front up to a bench or a desk – very few actually work from home. Most work places happen to be in the Capital Cities. I won’t even begin to talk about availability of medical facilities – I guess if you’re young and healthy, there would be no problems living way out of town.
Having said all that, and having lived in Sydney for at least 60 years, I would get out in a heart-beat if I could sever all the various ties that accumulate. I hate the crowds, noise and traffic – it would work a lot better if the population was halved!
You may think it’s simple to up sticks and move – it’s not.
on January 15th, 2009 at 7:01 pm
Ah the joys of writing! Delivering the work only an email away, researching only a click away and angry car companies media departments a comfortable distance away. (after the single honest review)…
I’d love to get out, I work in a ‘glamour’ industry, that is the music industry and it’s slim pickings. Gotta be in it to win it, so much so that it’s getting to the stage where i need to move from the leafy suburbs and into the land where the wheezing joggers run just to be close enough to get into work at the drop of a hat.
Most people who are in Sydney dislike sydney for its very obviously flaws, like the pollution and traffic, but stick around for long enough Julian and you’ll get to know nice people like myself, there are quite a lot of us around here, and thats the biggest reason why I wouldn’t leave.
on January 15th, 2009 at 7:53 pm
I’ve never lived in Australia’s largest city, and I can’t think of any possible situation that would compel me to do so”.
How about family? Parents, sisters, brothers, grand parents? Childrens grand parents?
“I think that most of the working class suburbs are just dives”.
Calm down Julian. Who are you to judge? There are people living in better houses, in better locations, with better jobs than you that look down on you.
“Look, I am not setting myself up as some authority on where people should reside”.
Then stfu and stick to writing about turbocharging, aerodynamics, suspension design and human powered vehicles etc. These are the subjects I come to Autospeed for. Not this “Why live in a hole like Sydney? Honestly…” elitist tripe.
on January 15th, 2009 at 8:53 pm
Jay, why on earth did you read the blog then when its title says exactly what it is about? It’s hardly being presented under false pretences.
on January 16th, 2009 at 5:20 am
For the same reason I listen to people I don’t agree with on talk back radio. And read the opinion pieces in news papers I don’t agree with. And read blogs on the internet. And have conversations with people. I am interested in finding out why people have their (usually ignorant!!) opinions.
This blog’s title “Why live in a hole like Sydney? Honestly…” asks a question and I have contributed my answer. Is the question intendend to be rhetorical?
on January 16th, 2009 at 8:06 am
>Most people who are in Sydney dislike sydney for its very obviously flaws, like the pollution and traffic, but stick around for long enough Julian and you’ll get to know nice people like myself, there are quite a lot of us around here, and thats the biggest reason why I wouldn’t leave.
Now, I’m sure there are many wonderful people in Sydney! But pollution kills me (no pun intended). I was jogging yesterday (something I never do) and as every older car (and some newer ones) drove by, I was greeted with a sinus burning odor. It produced an actual painful burning sensation. All a sudden, I felt like such an asshole for considering running my car without a catalytic converter.
Now I’m not for the abolishment of petrol cars by any degree–but pollution is extremely irritating. Especially when you realize how much better you feel when you’re walking through a forest and you’re surrounded with clean air. It’s a night and day difference.
@ Jay
>I am interested in finding out why people have their (usually ignorant!!) opinions.
That’s a very condescending and arrogant view, my friend! I wouldn’t take Julian’s blog for anything but an opinion subject to perspective. Nothing to get worked up over. It provoked discussion, didn’t it?
on January 16th, 2009 at 10:36 am
Next time your in Sydney Julian try and stay somewhere nice – any suburb located around the harbour or near a beach should do.
As you have pointed out in the past the internet is full of biased or one sided opionions. Thats why autospeed is so good, you usually do thorough testing to back up your statements.
It seems you went to one shitty suburb and based your whole opinion of sydney on this one instance. Sort of like saying all mitsubishi’s must be crap because you dont like the evo’s gearbox
on January 16th, 2009 at 11:39 am
So far we’ve had comments defending living in Sydney like:
– jobs (must be an incredible job if it is available no where else)
– medical care (gawd, what level of care is needed that is available in Sydney and no where else?)
– that somehow my view is related to my job (why? in fact the opposite should apply – as I said, by far the majority of automotive media jobs are in Sydney)
– that suggesting that people would have a better quality of life in places with less pollution, less traffic congestion, etc AND at a lower living cost is somehow elitist (the logic escapes me)
– That my sampling is too small – but as I wrote: “But having spent individual weeks on and off for the better part of 15 years working there..”. I have stayed in many different areas and visting dozens upon dozens of Sydney suburbs
– That people want to stay near families. I guess that’s so for many, but on that basis no one would ever haved moved anywhere! I would have thought with low plane fares, better communications, etc, more people than ever would feel they could move away from family
on January 16th, 2009 at 11:52 am
I’m really interested to know where it was that you stayed this last visit and when it was…
on January 16th, 2009 at 11:54 am
Lane Cove. About 6 weeks ago.
on January 16th, 2009 at 12:08 pm
Lane Cove is a very expensive area due to its location to RNSH, some of the elite schools of the area and proximity of major transport and retail hubs.
I know a few people that live there and agree that for the age of the properties in the area and the (on average) small block size – the prices are rediculously expensive. BUT, as the old saying goes – LOCATION !!! LOCATION !!! LOCATION.
on January 16th, 2009 at 1:34 pm
– jobs (must be an incredible job if it is available no where else)
– medical care (gawd, what level of care is needed that is available in Sydney and no where else?)
Julian, I was referring to capital cities in Australia – not just Sydney. MOST jobs and MOST medical facilities are in such places. For God’s sake, grow up!
on January 16th, 2009 at 1:40 pm
Perhaps you should read what I wrote? Where did I exclude all the other capital cities? I didn’t – you (apparently) did….
on January 16th, 2009 at 2:05 pm
Portions of every capital city are a hole; it’s all reletive. However, on the whole some are more of hole than others.
No pun intended on the above.
Sydney (along with Melbourne & Brisvegas), coupled with the time taken to get anywhere, the overall cost of living and the increasing levels pollution is starting to become more and more of a hole IMO.
Where else would an area that is between 1 & 3 hrs drive (Central Coast, South Coast or Blue Mtns – travel time depending on the time of day) be classed as a suburb of the CBD?
When I say suburb I mean a lot of people commuting daily to get to/from work. How many trains are there now on the Central Coast line at ‘Peak Hour’?
It is difficult to make the change of life and certainly the more responsibilities (kids, mortgage etc) the harder it is. But sometimes the short term sacrifice is a much better long term life balance gain.
on January 17th, 2009 at 7:59 pm
Chris Katko, you said “I am interested in finding out why people have their (usually ignorant!!) opinions”.
Maybe the talk back radio with John Laws, Alan Jones and Stan Zemanek in Sydney is better.
The same with newspapers.
Have a read of most blogs and forums. I’m paraphrasing Julian here “AutoSpeed forums – we got jack of the no-brains and shut it down.”
You also said “I wouldn’t take Julian’s blog for anything but an opinion subject to perspective”. Baa Baa! I respect alot of Julian’s opinions. But not this blissfully ignorant one.
“It provoked discussion, didn’t it?” This is the most provocative blog I have read during my time reading Autospeed. I couldn’t wait to get through the congested traffic to my polluted, fundamentally arrogant, rundown, olde-world, boozy dive hole and see what else has been posted. But it’s “Nothing to get worked up over”.
Julian. I’m not defending living in Sydney. I’m defending people living in places that doesn’t suit you.
“that suggesting that people would have a better quality of life in places with less pollution, less traffic congestion, etc AND at a lower living cost is somehow elitist (the logic escapes me). Depends on one’s idea of a life of quality.
“I would have thought with low plane fares, better communications, etc,” Not everywhere has an airport. And airports that cater for cheap airfares probably are in larger cities. If I moved to the hills and wanted to see my family and get there by cheap airfares I would also have to include fuel and parking, or taxi fare, of getting to the airport and back again, cheap airfare restrictions…I could go on.
In regards to “better communication”, no technology can come close to actually being present with people. I don’t want to live in virtual reality.
“Where did I exclude all the other capital cities?”
Where did you include all the other capital cities
on January 17th, 2009 at 8:01 pm
I lived in Sydney for 17years at Mona Vale.
I was born in Brisbane.
I have lived in 4 countries and 7 cities, and visited 35 countries.
I moved to Avoca Beach on the Central Coast 2 years ago.
I loved my 17 years at Mona Vale despite the 1hour commute to the city every day by Motorcycle.
Where else in the world can ordinary people live 150 metres from magnificent beaches with a magnificent climate?
When we chose the Central Coast we considered The Gold Coast, Sunshine Coast, most towns down the NSW coast and even Magnetic Island. Sorry Brissy , no way we would return.
Our kids love Sydney and will not move away. One lives at Avalon within 150 metres of the surf and another lives at Kellyville which to me is a shithole.
Sydney also has about IMHO the best climate of any capital in Australia.
One could also ask , why would someone live at Tambourine. No shops, cloudy, wet, cold in winter,twisty dangerous roads, tourists everywhere, ticks. Nice place to visit though.
Of course that is why it is cheap, not like Sydney.
Regards Philip A
on January 18th, 2009 at 11:18 pm
I really think it depends on the person. I agree many suburbs of Sydney are ‘dives’ but many, a great many actually are great places to live. I have lived in Sydney now for 4 years, after moving from the Hunter Valley. I must admit I haven’t missed the Hunter for 1 second, having been glad to flee to rampant Bogan culture there. I love the job opportunities, vibrant culture and energy that Sydney has, of which the Hunter had none.
on January 18th, 2009 at 11:22 pm
With the possible exception of the newly emerging Hunter Vineyards district (crawling with tourists from Sydney!). But if I want to see that, it’s a 2 hour drive. Sydney is a great base to venture out and see such things for weekend trips. Believe me, living in the tourist destinations is different to just visiting. They get old fast.
on January 19th, 2009 at 12:25 pm
The problem with all these “idealic” locations are that they seem to fill up fast with people escaping the big smoke. Sort of defeats the purpose in the end I would think.
I love living in Sydney. Mind you, I live in the inner west and I specifically chose the area to be close to work and play. Short bus trip to work (in the CBD) and I can walk to shopping centres and restaurants. Across the road is a huge multi-acre park and I am a 10 min drive to beaches and Sydney airport. I am close to all the major motorways in Sydney so escape is quick and painless when required ;)Why exactly would I move?
on January 19th, 2009 at 6:25 pm
I love Darlinghurst
Thats just me though!
PS// Sydney is NOT bike friendly, get over it, need a car
on January 20th, 2009 at 10:32 am
Hi Julian,
Looks like you’ve raised a hornet’s nest on this one.
I live in Sydney and I agree with what you’ve said 1000%… The extra zero’s not a mistake.
Sydney is over rated.
The road system’s crap, the public transport’s worse. Alot of the people are rude & arrogant especially the Generation Y’s & late Generation X’s. And, they are worse on the roads.
The air is pretty bad as well.
I can remember when the population was 1/2 what is today and it was definately a more pleasant place to live.
The reason I live here is because I was born here and I work for myself and the work I untertake is pretty specialised so to move somewhere else is a big deal…
At one stage I liked the hinterland behind Surfers. But to me that area is becoming densely populated.
I do however intend to retire from Sydney when my kids leave home (a long way off yet).
And, that will be a big deal because of the gear I have in my workshop. I’ll need a rather large tray top truck to move it all. And the rates interstate aint cheap.
on January 21st, 2009 at 11:26 am
I was born in liverpool (sydney), raised in Brisbane, Spent 1 month of every year at my dads place in sydneys”inner west” (Jet noise is great isn’t it?)
then spent 2 years moving around it. Cannot say i have ever liked it…
Unfortunately, many have moved to brisbane and the coasts, and their also bringing their stupid rush culture and sour attitude with them.
Brisbane doesn’t feel like brisbane anymore.
on January 21st, 2009 at 1:51 pm
It’s curious that some people took this so much to heart.
The points I made in the blog about Sydney, relative to the rest of Australia, (high air pollution, high house prices, high traffic congestion, economy in down turn) are all matters of fact, not subjective opinions.
Obvioulsy some people believe that the attraction that Sydney has for them outweighs those points, but when people react so strongly in a discussion I always wonder if the points haven’t hit a bit close to home (pun intended).
I am also a bit puzzled that people refer in negative terms to where I live. It’s a bit like if I say: ‘That Holden is a poor car’, and then all the Holden owners go: ‘Nah, nah, you drive a Honda and what a POS that is’.
I think pretty well anywhere in Australia where there are adequate services would be preferable to living in Sydney; that is: where the air is better, the house prices lower, the traffic congestion lower, and the economy not in free-fall. Pick your spot!
on January 21st, 2009 at 7:52 pm
I thought I’d just say – I agree, but is in it typical.
Your points on living are true not just here in ANY of australia’s big citys but also around the world.
I’ve lived in Sydney all my Life. Like you said not many will admit where? I will LAKEMBA. Greatest place on Earth too me.
Reason I walk out the door and it’s like being one in Any part of the world.
One end I had North Africa – Middle East – Asia – Southern Europe. All just driving 5mins away in any direction. To me Sydney is the ONLY TRUE Multicultural – CITY.
I’ve been to Melbourne and it’s Got it’s Multi- cultures but not the Same. Brisbane/Godl Coast – My own FAMILY in QLD – Called me a WOG. Yet I have part Asian background?
Perth anywhere out of the city I was the same even asked if I was a SAFFA – SouthAfrican.
Brisbane – Is changing, I don’t like it only because it is too small.
Melbounre any sydney person can live – IF they can handle the Cold.
The Rest of Australia is too small for any person who grows up in Sydney. LA- New York is like visting the Parents.
I love Sydney because, it’s Big spread out and Has too many Holes – You have pockets in places.
You have the Eastern suburbs – You have the inner city Gay areas – You have the Westy world – You have Trendy Westy world. The So called Perfect North Shore with Manly the blacktown of the area. You have the South westys – And you have the Middle Houdlium areas.
Melbounre trys but it’s not the same. They lack the rude and fasted pace.
But it’s Why people want to be in Sydney.
lets be honest.
This whole Why sydney.
NO imagrant want so to go to a Place where They still call people Wog’s – or Ching Chon Chinaman.
Melbourne you don’t get it. but like I said it’s COLD.
It’s because people can feel comfortable in Sydney.
Imagine you came to Sydney from LA Tokyo- Manila – Hong Kong or major European city.
End up in Brisbane, Perth or Worse Adelaide and you get only 20km’s and it’s the end of the city. Yeah welcome to nothing to do. I’ve been to those citys late night and it’s we have Casino and thats it.
Sydney ain’t much better but at least you can drive hire car at night around and you will see other cars on the road They may try to cut you off but your not on your own.
Your right many question as I do why do people stay – they complain – talk about how good it is in south east QLD or Perth etc.
but They never leave?
I don’t want to leave.
I’m an Australian – I’d like to be called an Australian – Not something else in Australia.
Plus I want Kebabs and Real Chinese Food on weekly basis.
on January 22nd, 2009 at 9:10 am
Horses for courses, Julian. Normally, when you make disparaging remarks about oversize V8’s and such, I accept that it’s your opinion(some of the time I happen to agree) and your blog but this is a bit much. I also live in Tamborine (Village, not Mountain) and I love it here. I can’t see my neighbours and it’s quiet at night. But then, I’m not really a people person – I don’t have many friends or feel the need to socialise on a regular basis. But that’s me, not you, not Jason, Marty, Jay or any other contributors to this blog. We are all different people and want different things in life. Sydneysiders put up with smog and over crowding and you put up with hordes of tourists and poorly maintained mountain roads. Melbournians (?) put up with stupid weather and Toorak. Different people like different things.
on January 22nd, 2009 at 9:59 am
I think that, if anything, the blog understates the case.
And again, why compare it with where I live? I have never done so. I’d rather live in Melbourne, Canberra, Brisbane or Perth than in Sydney.
That preference is based on universal ‘quality of life’ criteria like air quality, living costs, congestion, economic growth, etc
Incidentally, I can see absolutely no reason why judgements cannot be made about people’s lifestyles -an apparent feeling that this is ‘off limits’ seems to underpin a lot of the negative comments being made here.
on January 22nd, 2009 at 2:11 pm
I think the “off limits” feeling is due to the fact that you may be offending or upsetting some people who like living in Sydney.
The article might suggest that anyone who lives in Sydney is either unlucky or unwise.
on January 22nd, 2009 at 3:58 pm
Not living in Sydney means lower living cost, which is great since I can spend more on car’s! I live in country S.A. and I have the room to realy drive and test my car’s and there mods (inside the boundry of the law within reason) without fear of being harassed by the police or the public in general. I asked how can you enjoy your vehicles while your stuck in traffic or at urban speeds? Something to think about.
on January 22nd, 2009 at 5:03 pm
haha, i think you can tell who the sydney siders are who have posted in this reponse section…
on a side note, as funny as it sounds, when you are not stuck in traffic that is stationary, it is amazing how much power and fasts you need to pull up to speed etc safely. i have always found a modified turbo car with brake upgrades a very handy feat to have whilst driving around the motorways and main highways etc.
on a whole i think the traffic and drivers move along rather well, i am glad most drivers have new good type cars with abs etc, makes the roads a safer place and me feel a little safer, with regards to their possible lack of ability otherwise.
as for the roads, they always make me laugh, middle of the city, half the roads are like goat tracks, especially up hornsby/north side, i understand it is hard to shut them down to repair them, but dam!
bring your 4×4 for those apparently city roads, could swear you were out west somewhere…
on January 22nd, 2009 at 9:48 pm
Julian, you said “…but when people react so strongly in a discussion I always wonder if the points haven’t hit a bit close to home”
I live in Melbourne. I must have misinterpreted when you said,
“Why live in a hole LIKE Sydney?”
“…why large cities LIKE Sydney…”
“Where did I exclude all the other capital cities?”
Is this blog only about your experience in Sydney, or are you generalising about cities in general?
Richard, my location in Melbourne is comparable to you. Usually close to work depending where I’m based on the day. Most of the time I’m driving against and traffic at none peak times. I’m a 15 min walk to the CBD, Vic Market, Docklands and a 5 min walk to public transport, pubs, restaurants, shops, bla bla bla. I have great neighbours with kids the same age as mine and I’m close to most of our family. I have family living in a country/beach town on the Great Ocean Road 2 hours from us in the Shitty. I am very envious of their lifestyle. They are envious of mine but none of us are moving.
Julian, you also said “It’s curious that some people took this so much to heart”.
Maybe I have over reacted.
But what how would you react with a blog written by somebody “…not setting myself up as some authority on where people should reside. But…” which contained such statements as,
“Why live in a hole like Mount Tamborine?”
“arrogance of the residents of Mount Tamborine”
“run-down appearance of Mount Tamborine”
“I wonder why Mount Tamborine continue to maintain their size, without the exodus of residents”
“get the hell out of the place”
“Mount Tamborine is a dive”.
You could have made the points you wanted to about Sydney or cities or wherever without such comments, I feel. This is the sort of tone I read on other blogs about hybrids and diesel and pushbike riders.
“I think that, if anything, the blog understates the case”.
Well then tell us what you really think.
“why compare it with where I live?” I’m no more of an anthropologist than you are an authority of where people should live, but I would assume humans compare everything to everything else to make a judgement and form an opinion. One car to another car. One modification to another one. One location to another location.
“I’d rather live in Melbourne”. I know you’re not serious but, I have to say, please don’t.
Matthew, “Melbournians (?) put up with stupid weather”. It may be colder in Melbourne, but Sydney and Brisbane have more rain, storms, cyclones, fires, etc. Plus the sun rises too early and sets too late compared to Melbourne.
on January 22nd, 2009 at 11:12 pm
Is this blog only about your experience in Sydney, or are you generalising about cities in general?
It is exactly what it says – it is about Sydney. It says Sydney in the title, it says Sydney in just about every paragraph. It is clearly and unambiguously about Sydney. I am a bit puzzled why people would even think it is about other places when none are mentioned or even implied….
But what how would you react with a blog written by somebody “…not setting myself up as some authority on where people should reside. But…” which contained such statements as,
“Why live in a hole like Mount Tamborine?”
“arrogance of the residents of Mount Tamborine”
“run-down appearance of Mount Tamborine”
“I wonder why Mount Tamborine continue to maintain their size, without the exodus of residents”
“get the hell out of the place”
“Mount Tamborine is a dive”.
I would fall about laughing.
Then I would look for the objective evidence presented to support those opinions – things like, air quality, congestion, house prices, access to services, public transport, crime, prosperity, growth – stuff like that.
“why compare it with where I live?” I’m no more of an anthropologist than you are an authority of where people should live, but I would assume humans compare everything to everything else to make a judgement and form an opinion. One car to another car. One modification to another one. One location to another location.
[Shrug]. I think it is a pretty weak argument. The discussion is about the city I am commenting on. The obvious comparison, if you want to make one, is to other large Australian cities.
I haven’t made the case in the blog for moving from a large city to a small country town – it’s a completely different argument. (I am happy to discuss this if people want, but as I said, it’s another topic.)
on January 27th, 2009 at 12:19 pm
Entertaining article about cycling in Sydney:
http://www.smh.com.au/news/opinion/posture-a-sore-point-for-pained-pedalpushers/2009/01/21/1232471392456.html
on February 5th, 2009 at 11:30 pm
Fair dinkum. You sound like a hick from the sticks. Honestly.
Its one thing to believe in the Utopia that telecommuting might provide. Its another thing entirely, when you dont have a clue that managers are frequently against it, and no matter how you dress it up, some managers just wont allow it. So the boss says no, and thats the end of the story. What amazesme, is that you dont understand this, and rabbit on about it, as if an employee is free to do whatever the hell they like.
And before you attack me, I dont live in Sydney. I live in London. I moved OUT of Sydney for a number of reasons that are entirely my own, but that doesnt mean Sydney is any the worse for it.
How about you come down off your utopian mountain, and live with the rest of the people in the real world, lest things start going to your head.
on February 6th, 2009 at 7:45 am
“…as if an employee is free to do whatever the hell they like.”
Yes, that’s right. You are free to go choose whatever job you like and can get.
The limits you apply are the ones you’ve created.
on February 8th, 2009 at 8:44 pm
As a Sydeysider born and bred, I can’t but agree with Julian’s comments regarding Sydney, with the rider that some parts like the affluent northern suburbs would be nice places to live provided one could afford it (way beyond the means of this former Westie).
I disagree with comments about Sydney’s climate- unless one lives on the coastal fringe, it’s crap. Brisbane is however, far worse.
Melbourne has its good points although it has some “hole” suburbs as well. Adelaide is nice but with a pretty awful climate. Perth is better, still with some “Boganville” suburbs, rubbish soil for gardeners and a crazy road system (given the city is spread thinly up and down the west coast).
As a “heat hater” Hobart has the goods for me, although I presently live in the tropics, thanks to a job which takes me to remote parts of the country!
on February 11th, 2009 at 7:32 pm
Mate
You complaint all you want about this fantastic city, but when you come from real “hole” as I come from, then there is nothing like Sydney! The best place on hearth! Since I came to Australia, I cannot picture myself living in any other place (Maybe NZ or Japan)
Maybe you should move to a third world country and expirience what a real hole is (and real crime and pollution)
I dont understand how you dare to say something like that about Sydney. Grow up!
on February 12th, 2009 at 8:14 pm
Daniel, one assumes “hole” is a relative term, and quite possibly hyperbolic as well, that is compared to other Australian cities. Those of us who have travelled (which includes me) realise that nowhere is a “hole” in this country compared to some horrible places overseas. I shuddered with disgust when I visited India and Sri Lanka 30 years ago- they are probably a lot better now, but few parts of Bombay or Colombo would be attractive places to live even now.
on February 14th, 2009 at 2:07 pm
I liked it (Autospeed) better with no forum-like comments of blogs, and when I paid a good $65 bucks or so every two years to get access to the articles…. meanwhile these douchebags all over the joint that don’t pay a single dollar, get access to try and be the next boy racers of our time, or get fully SIIICK raps’ from their friends because of some brilliantly thought out modification, that would take them forever and a day to figure out themselves.
Does anyone get what I’m saying? Really….
Honestly Julian… be a little more dictator-like and only allow comments to be posted that are worth the time, (as on youtube), instead of arguing with people…I mean, who cares. Go and give your wife some nookie or hang out with your kids.
on February 14th, 2009 at 4:45 pm
Tom, yours is one of the very few comments I debated about OK’ing for publication, as it contributed absolutely nothing to the topic under discussion, or to anything much else actually.
on February 14th, 2009 at 7:02 pm
Julian… then don’t ‘OK’ my comments…just use them as personal words of wisdom, haha.
I would argue this blog post in particular, pointless anyhoo, seeing it mostly filled with thoughts that won’t even put a blip in mostly anyones’ radar, seeing we all know even those not saying they live in the dark, usually are, for a variety of reasons just like everyone else.
Meanwhile, my contribution was pretty well since the conception of this website, by purchasing annual subscriptions that directly contributed towards paying yourself and anyone/thing else involving the site. Unlike many I’ve seen scabbing articles from a single source on Autospeed and plastering them as links to *.pdf files on various car/motoring forums in the past. Not dissimilar to those who use BORDERS book-shops like libraries.
Also, what’s with ‘debating’ about OK-ing my comment? You actually debated with someone on this? Haha
on February 18th, 2009 at 6:31 am
i miss sydney but i will be back! sure the traffic can be bad and it is expensive but it is a beautiful city. When referring to living in sydney people only mention the north shore and inner city but there are so many beautiful suburbs! I spent the first 26 years of my life in the southern suburbs of sydney, around blakehurst/oatley.. these are the best areas of sydney! try these areas when you next go julian
on September 1st, 2009 at 9:09 pm
Julian, you have a point, but Sydney is where i live & you are disgracing my home. Happens all too often in this country.
I have lived in Asia for years too & I must say Sydney has better Infrastructure than most SE asian cities (except Singapore)
As the great ex PM Paul Keating once said:
“If you are not living in Sydney, you are camping out”
Enough said….
on November 12th, 2010 at 9:21 am
I moved from London to Sydney and lived there for 5 years. I could not wait to leave, the Cronulla race riots were the final straw for me. The City puts on a good face with the harbour but the rest is pretty much awful forsake some of the north and east. A lot of London is horrific but at least it has a soul, history and culture not just a nasty money factory. ‘Aussie’ way of life.. no thanks.